I Think I Need To Take A Break…
Yesterday’s news really has me wondering what the future of this site will be. I truly think I am going to find it hard for me to recommend TiVo when the product requires you to sign up to a three year commitment in order to get a decent monthly rate. I know what some people are happy with the new pricing structure but, I’m really don’t like how the new pricing structure is laid out. Because of this, I think I am going to take the next couple days to decide what I want to do with this site.
I really do love TiVo but I feel like the company has made some poor decisions over the past couple of months (ie: the initial price of the Series 3 TiVo). I guess what I am trying to say is that I just need a little time to figure out what I’m going to do. I really have had a lot of fun meeting new people and covering TiVo news and I’d hate to see that come to an end…..
November 6th, 2006 at 10:59 pm |
I can understand needing a break, but I do hope you continue the site. I don’t think it as bad as all that, we’ll see how TiVo did on their next quaterly call on November 29th.
I think yesterday’s price changes are part of their previously announced move towards having bundles sold at retail and not just online. Now there are six pricing options instead of twelve.
I’m sure TiVo knows exactly what their subscription breakdown is - how many people bought bundles compared to retail, pre-paid vs monthly, 1-, 2- or 3-years, etc. I doubt they would make the change if they felt it was going to hurt subs. It looks like they’ve mainly made longer term commitments more attractive, to reduce churn, and that’s a good thing.
I agree the S3 is pretty expensive (though I bought one), but the cost will definitely come down. They’ve dipped as low as $650 already with specials on some sites, and I’m confident there will be more sales, and the MSRP will drop with time.
So I hope you stick around.
November 7th, 2006 at 12:05 pm |
I think you are smart to step back and evaluate things from time to time.
If I’m reading you correctly, one thing you are concerned about is a series 3 machine will not work or be obsolete because of technology changes probably having to do with cable cards, the FCC, the MPAA and other nasty organizations!
I don’t think you are alone on this Alex.
It seems the basic problem is that TiVo needs to somehow ensure that their customers don’t feel they are investing into a DVR that could become a paper weight because of technology changes.
They need some sort of option for people who commit to the three years, that they will have a DVR that does what they want it to do. Have they ever had any kind of “trade-in” or “swap out” program? Is the 3 year commitment always tied to one CPU or are they transferable?
If they really are concerned with churn, then they need to address this problem. They could fix it if they wanted to do so.
November 7th, 2006 at 2:15 pm |
I obviously enjoy this blog but totally understand your need to take a break. Unlike MegaZone, who I swear must be on the TiVo payroll, you can obviously think for yourself and understand that going from $12.95/mo with no strings attached to $12.95/mo with a three (3) year commitment is not good for any TiVo subscribers.
As an owner of 2 Series2 boxes, and plans to buy a Series3 once the price dropped a little, yesterday I actually looked into the Comcast DVR for the first time. Maybe I won’t get the cute little graphics and navigation menus but dual tuners with HD capability, video-on-demand and a 120 GB hard drive for $9.95/mo without any contract sounds pretty good to me. For me the only advantage TiVo used to have over the cable DVR was the multi-room viewing and TiVo-To-Go but that functionality has been stripped out of the Series3. I know some people expect to see that functionality back in the Series3 soon (you have no basis for that argument) but if TiVo launched there’s biggest product ever without it, what really are the chances of that happening?
I’m sure this topic has already been exhausted on previous posts but I am getting serious about dumping TiVo and moving to the Comcast DVR to record HD. Are there any major problems or just glaring reasons why I would not want to start using the Comcast DVR?
November 7th, 2006 at 5:47 pm |
Doug - The commitment is transferrable. If you commit to a 3-year plan, you can swap the box and transfer that commitment to a new box. So you’re not tied to one platform for that time period.
The downside is that rebates require a *new* service activation. So you’d pay full price for a new box to do the upgrade. You’d have to do the math at the time and see what the cost of the new box is compared to the cost of just paying off the existing commitment, or keeping the old box and using MSD on the new box, etc.
November 7th, 2006 at 5:54 pm |
John, I have a Series 2 and I have the Comcast HD DVR to take care of my HD needs. It’s not that reliable (I’ve had to replace it several times after it failed and took my recordings with it), it occasionally doesn’t record shows that I’ve set up a season pass for, it’s hot, it’s slow, and the UI isn’t nearly as good as the TiVo. However, when it works it’s great to record HD and two programs at once.
November 7th, 2006 at 7:55 pm |
I think we’re all missing something here. TiVo looks like it’s making some mis-steps, but look at the bigger picture.
They have this deal with Comcast that hasn’t come to fruition yet. This is probably the key to why Tivo is pricing itself out of the market. Comcast would probably prefer that their customer rent their “TiVo” box from Comcast, rather than purchase one from TiVo and pay a similar if not lower monthly rate.
Tivo is making their monthly rates so high, that when Comcast does release their version of the Tivo, it will be more appealing for the customer to just rent Tivo from Comcast.
I really think this is what Tivo is preparing for, but only time will tell.
Peace,
T.
November 8th, 2006 at 10:58 am |
As much as people love their tivos. You must still remeber that it is a business and business’s have to make money to survive.
The commitement guarantees them a revenue stream for 3 years. They have to do this with all the cable companies rolling out their own boxes. You can currently buy a 80 hour tivo free if you sign a commitment for 3 years at 12.95 per month. Whats the problem here?
As far as complaining about the initial price of a new series 3. I have 2 questions for those complaining about the price to think about. 1. how much did your HD tv cost 2. how much did the HD tv’s costs 3 years ago? 3. how much did tivo cost when they were first released?
Do you think the series 3 was created with no cost?
November 10th, 2006 at 5:24 pm |
I hope you continue the site as well. Ironically, today, I called to cancel my Tivo account. As a Mac user, I got fed up, and I’ve ben running EyeTV and two different tuners into new MacMinis in my various rooms. I still have Tivo in a sense in the form of my HD DirecTV receiver, but that will soon be gone too with the new HD receiver. When I called to cancel, they offered to let me stay for a no-contract-required $6.95/month.
November 10th, 2006 at 11:38 pm |
Ironically enough I have been lazy and wanting to switch from my DVR to Tivo for a while now. However, I am glad now that I didn’t. 3 years is too long, they are going to lose many customers.
Everyone needs a break here and there, it allows for clarity.
November 15th, 2006 at 12:08 pm |
After reading MZ’s last reply, I realize that I also need to take a break. This is just ridiculous. Don’t worry MZ, I talked to TiVo and the paycheck for all the free propaganda is in the mail.
Take care!
November 16th, 2006 at 9:56 am |
Ah, if you can’t win the argument accuse the other person of being on the payroll. I’ve never seen that before in my 17 years online. You should go into politics. Can’t attack the facts, try to discredit the messenger.
The fact is, net costs mostly decreased, and most of the few increases were small. I’ve shown the math behind that. No one has been able to show where the figures are wrong.
The one-year commitment is not new, and you don’t need to commit to three years to save money.
Not liking the shift with lower upfront costs and higher ongoing costs is fine, that’s a matter of preference. But the math doesn’t support claiming this is a major increase for TiVo owners.
You do need a break.
November 16th, 2006 at 11:21 am |
MegaZone, you’re impossible! I’ve made my point many times on this subject already and backed it up with facts. If you have no problem signing a 3 year contract to get the SAME THING you are getting today with NO CONTRACT, then I am very happy for you but I think it’s obvious that you are definitely in the minority here. Maybe you’re falling into TiVo’s trap and getting fooled by some discounts for paying enormous up front fees but for consumers like myself who pay monthly, it’s very simple:
OLD PLAN = $12.95/mo NO CONTRACT
NEW PLAN = $12.95/mo THREE (3) YEAR CONTRACT!!!
How can you not acknowledge this difference???
Or how about this:
OLD PLAN = $12.95/mo
NEW PLAN = $19.95/mo ONE (1) YEAR CONTACT!!!
For the sake of argument, I will even concede the need to sign a contract and still make the point that for a user like myself, the current fee went up by $7.00!!!
I know you are obviously obsessed with TiVo but I beg you to please still be reasonable and try to dig deep for a little common sense when evaluating this major change.
Also, if the person who runs this blog is threatening to shut it down based on this change in TiVo’s fee structure, doesn’t that alone make you think? I’m sorry if I offended you because I was actually giving you the benefit of the doubt by accusing you of being on the TiVo payroll. That would have explained everything. But if that’s not your reason for so adamantly and inexplicably defending TiVo’s new fees, then I’m only left to assume you simply struggle with exercising common sense. The fact that you even attempted to spin this price increase in favor of the consumer makes you a better politician than I could ever be. I wish you the best of luck.
November 18th, 2006 at 12:42 am |
TiVo Arrogance. They do not appreciate their customers and we have stopped appreciating them.
We are two time TiVo customers that purchased a Series 1 in 2000 with lifetime service and again purchased a Series 2 in 2005 with lifetime service. The Series 2 box died in 13 months. TiVo said “Sorry but you’re out of warranty. We will send you a replacement for $150. If you want it faster, give us a $300 deposit and we will ship sooner and refund the deposit when we receive your broken unit.” My wife protested and they did us a favor by only charging $80 to replace the box that was a year old and should not have broken. The “advanced ship” was not sent a week after the initial call – why? We called back, they “had no idea why but they are very sorry”. The new box showed up 14 days after the initial call. Four days after installing the new unit, the hard drive died – you have got to be kidding….
I called this time. Same song and dance only we were in luck this time - since it was within the 30-day warranty we only had to put down the $300 to have then send an advance ship to replace the new, um, broken, um, DOA box. I protested strongly. Told them they are not treating their customers well. Told them we were loyal customers, upset at how we’ve already been treated and that it would be reasonable to expect them to take care of this DOA replacement ASAP. They said sorry but there was nothing they could do. Pay for an advance ship or send the box back and they would then send out after they received it. By the way, this was a “supervisor” who was offering up all of this help. I asked to speak with a manager but he informed me there was no one else to speak with – nice.
I seriously question the level of talent this company has in the ranks of management. They are short sighted and totally missing the big picture. Positive service experiences are what will keep a company healthy and prospering. They don’t get it. How about asking for a credit card as collateral instead of charging their customers for the privilege of responsive service? They can put a $300 credit hold on the card to get their security without looking like small minded money grubbers that you should feel good about because they are doing you a favor. Then again, they wouldn’t get the interest float on the bank account if they did that, would they? How about going above and beyond the normal (crappy) protocol after you’ve just delivered a lemon to a customer who has already expressed dissatisfaction with your company? Arrogance!
TiVo has been struggling for a long time and I’ve been a cheerleader, singing their praises to anyone that would listen. Talented engineers, morons in every other department. My view of them has changed 180 degrees. My wife and I are done with them. We’ll use the boxes as long as they shall live since we have already forked out the dollars for lifetime service and a repair of a box that should not have broken. We will NEVER again purchase anything from TiVo and will be more than eager to share our experiences with any that will listen.
November 18th, 2006 at 2:34 pm |
Jeff,
It sucks that you had a bad experience, and I know you’re not the only one. At the same time there are many people who praise TiVo’s customer support and have been given free boxes to swap for a dead box, even out of warranty. It is really down to the CSR and supervisor, some will bend the rules and go the extra mile, some just punch the clock and do the least they can.
If you haven’t, I would write a letter to TiVo documenting your case and the treatment you received. There are supervisors there who have gone out of their way to handle cases in the past. It may be too late for you, since it has been resolved one way or another, but it may allow them to find the people you dealt with and help prevent it from happening again.
December 7th, 2006 at 1:11 pm |
Jeff-
I have to say that I’m kinda shocked by your story, but then again, not really. I work in customer service for a different type of life (computer world). I know most of my team and managers will go out of our way to make the customer happy. If they call upset, I try to make them comfortable and feel better that they did call for help. On the other side of the coin, when I call for help to a customer service center, IF I don’t get treated the way I feel I should. I’m getting names of the rep, supervisor, the manager and will contiue up the ladder until someone with a brain gets it. My interaction with Tivo CS so far has been top notch (but nothing has broke, knock on wood). I’m getting ready to add a second S2 unit that is from a friend to my lifetime sub. We’ll see how that goes.
Alex-
Deep breathe man. Just enjoy the holidays and revisit this after the new year. Everyone needs a break to think. Being frustrated with something you believe in can be draining. Have faith and see what happens next. I enjoy reading here and would hate to see this gone because of something that is still in the middle of a trasition phase from Tivo.
Steve
December 8th, 2006 at 9:52 am |
Steve,
I think you’re right. It has been hard to me to sit back and watch all the TiVo news without commenting on it. I think I’ll decide after the New Year what I am going to do with this site. I really love my TiVo but I don’t like what TiVo has done with the new pricing structure. Maybe I’ll just continue to blog about TiVo and whenever somebody asks me if they should purchase one I’ll direct them to MegaZone’s pricing structure breakdown (http://community.livejournal.com/tivolovers/373587.html#cutid1). That way they’ll be able to decide for themselves. Thanks for the support. Please remain subscribed to the site so that you can stay informed…
December 8th, 2006 at 11:11 am |
Alex,
I do hope you stick with it - maybe they’ll be something cool from CES to get you excited again.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:22 am |
I don’t know. The Series 3 had me really excited but the price is just too high. I had hoped that it would be lowered for the holiday season.
December 8th, 2006 at 11:26 am |
I knew they’d never lower the S3 price before the end of the year - it’d piss off WAY too many people who bought it for $799 to see it for $699 a week later, before the holidays. Once they offered the VIP upgrade I knew the price wouldn’t change until at least that had expired, or they’d have people demanding refunds.
I’ve seen it dip as low as $650 through resellers, and heard reports of $600. Since TiVo reportedly sells it for $500, resellers have a $300 margin to play with if they want to offer discounts.
Also, sales are reportedly still good, so they don’t have incentive to cut the price. If they’re making money on the S3 sales, and people are buying them in good numbers at the current price, then the market will bear it. And this is the peak selling season.
I don’t think we’ll see a cut until a few months into 2007, in the traditionally slow season. Sales will slow down, and they can drop the price to encourage more sales.
December 8th, 2006 at 12:26 pm |
MegaZone,
I think you’re right. Maybe I was just being a little naive…
December 28th, 2006 at 10:04 pm |
I was a Tivo lover for many years.
But
December 28th, 2006 at 10:08 pm |
Tivo Sucks!
I hate to say it because I was a big fan. But the 19.95 a month + 1 year contract is crap. There is no way now to sign up for service with out a contract. That is bullshit!
December 29th, 2006 at 1:07 am |
Tokin - ALL new activations have required a minimum one-year commitment for a while now, that isn’t new. I wouldn’t take the $19.95/month rate either, 2- or 3-years are better, especially pre-paid.